Topic
  • 12 replies
  • Latest Post - ‏2012-12-13T18:15:04Z by pdubovitsky
omalecot
omalecot
344 Posts

Pinned topic On CCRC

‏2012-11-22T19:57:20Z |
Hi,

I don't know what to think about CCRC,
Rational developped it since many years, but it seems that CCRC will never reach the same level of capability like CC Explorer for example. Same for CTE.

What do you think about CCRC? Is it a real swcm tool, or is it something else??

Cheers
Olivier
  • GKellner
    GKellner
    259 Posts

    Re: On CCRC

    ‏2012-11-26T12:05:24Z  
    CCRC is developed to support some CC operations via WAN.
    There is no plan to realize all functionallity like a local client.

    So it's a useful AddOn.

    greetings georg.
  • omalecot
    omalecot
    344 Posts

    Re: On CCRC

    ‏2012-11-27T05:38:55Z  
    • GKellner
    • ‏2012-11-26T12:05:24Z
    CCRC is developed to support some CC operations via WAN.
    There is no plan to realize all functionallity like a local client.

    So it's a useful AddOn.

    greetings georg.
    Hi Georg,

    If I follow you, I will say to the users : use it only for consultation !

    What the users need, this is a modern gui, not twenty years old, that does not let them working alone and blind. How to put a label or doing a global merge when you cannot know what other people in your own team are doing? I really need extension to make it a real swcm tool.

    Cheers
    Olivier
  • brcowan
    brcowan
    763 Posts

    Re: On CCRC

    ‏2012-11-27T16:25:10Z  
    I think you'll find that the eventual plan for ClearTeam Explorer is that it will (eventually) supercede ALL ClearCase GUI's. So, while it doesn't do everything that all the other GUIs do, it certainly does more in 8.0 than CCRC did in 7.1.x. So, while you can't do completely without the rich client now for some admin usecases, it certainly does most of what an end-user would need.

    What I would say is to have the users try it out and see if it suits their needs.

    =================================================================
    Brian Cowan
    Advisory Software Engineer
    ClearCase Software Advisory Team (SWAT)
    Rational Software
    IBM Software Group
    550 King St
    Littleton, MA 01460

    Phone: 1.978.899.5436
    Web: http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/support/
  • omalecot
    omalecot
    344 Posts

    Re: On CCRC

    ‏2012-11-27T19:18:54Z  
    • brcowan
    • ‏2012-11-27T16:25:10Z
    I think you'll find that the eventual plan for ClearTeam Explorer is that it will (eventually) supercede ALL ClearCase GUI's. So, while it doesn't do everything that all the other GUIs do, it certainly does more in 8.0 than CCRC did in 7.1.x. So, while you can't do completely without the rich client now for some admin usecases, it certainly does most of what an end-user would need.

    What I would say is to have the users try it out and see if it suits their needs.

    =================================================================
    Brian Cowan
    Advisory Software Engineer
    ClearCase Software Advisory Team (SWAT)
    Rational Software
    IBM Software Group
    550 King St
    Littleton, MA 01460

    Phone: 1.978.899.5436
    Web: http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/support/
    Hi Brian,

    Actually I am talking about the feedback from the users, CCRC/CTE cannot find checkouts, no report builder, vob groups not consultable, and so on (not talking about wrapper script ...).

    Like I said, how to label or merge blindly a vob?, and end users are not only developpers, they are also configuration managers. Configuration managers are not ClearCase admin. Configuration managers have to be able to check if there are checkouts left on the current branch, before labelling or merging the next version of the software. The project manager is often the configuration manager too. Does it mean that Configuration managers cannot work with CCRC/CTE? This is so strange : ClearCase is a software configuration management tool first - don't you think?

    Cheers
    Olivier
  • brcowan
    brcowan
    763 Posts

    Re: On CCRC

    ‏2012-11-28T00:16:53Z  
    • omalecot
    • ‏2012-11-27T19:18:54Z
    Hi Brian,

    Actually I am talking about the feedback from the users, CCRC/CTE cannot find checkouts, no report builder, vob groups not consultable, and so on (not talking about wrapper script ...).

    Like I said, how to label or merge blindly a vob?, and end users are not only developpers, they are also configuration managers. Configuration managers are not ClearCase admin. Configuration managers have to be able to check if there are checkouts left on the current branch, before labelling or merging the next version of the software. The project manager is often the configuration manager too. Does it mean that Configuration managers cannot work with CCRC/CTE? This is so strange : ClearCase is a software configuration management tool first - don't you think?

    Cheers
    Olivier
    I think we are misunderstanding each other. ClearTeam Explorer is not YET a complete replacement for all the ClearCase GUIs. It is a work in progress. The same can be said for the rcleartool command.

    At this time, I think we can agree that there are a number of desired usecases that are not yet implemented. If you provide me with a detailed list of the usecases you are looking for, I may be able to find the various RFE's on the RFE community for you.

    =================================================================
    Brian Cowan
    Advisory Software Engineer
    ClearCase Software Advisory Team (SWAT)
    Rational Software
    IBM Software Group
    550 King St
    Littleton, MA 01460

    Email: brcowan@us.ibm.com
    Phone: 1.978.899.5436
    Web: http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/support/
  • omalecot
    omalecot
    344 Posts

    Re: On CCRC

    ‏2012-11-28T20:13:54Z  
    • brcowan
    • ‏2012-11-28T00:16:53Z
    I think we are misunderstanding each other. ClearTeam Explorer is not YET a complete replacement for all the ClearCase GUIs. It is a work in progress. The same can be said for the rcleartool command.

    At this time, I think we can agree that there are a number of desired usecases that are not yet implemented. If you provide me with a detailed list of the usecases you are looking for, I may be able to find the various RFE's on the RFE community for you.

    =================================================================
    Brian Cowan
    Advisory Software Engineer
    ClearCase Software Advisory Team (SWAT)
    Rational Software
    IBM Software Group
    550 King St
    Littleton, MA 01460

    Email: brcowan@us.ibm.com
    Phone: 1.978.899.5436
    Web: http://www.ibm.com/software/rational/support/
    Thanks,

    There is this RFE:
    RATLC00771383
    http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewChangeRequest&CR_ID=2704

    It has been rejected, and IBM doesn't want to reevaluate it. And it seems there isn't much hope to see this in any 8.x.x version. Please look at the comment in the Feature Comparison Matrix for CCRC, CTE, ... .

    This is terrible, because this is not a big effort to send a "cleartool lsco -all" to the cm server and to get the result on the client IMO. Then I cannot understand this "design" limitation.

    I hope you can help !

    Cheers
    Olivier
  • dhawal833
    dhawal833
    37 Posts

    Re: On CCRC

    ‏2012-12-11T17:08:14Z  
    • omalecot
    • ‏2012-11-28T20:13:54Z
    Thanks,

    There is this RFE:
    RATLC00771383
    http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewChangeRequest&CR_ID=2704

    It has been rejected, and IBM doesn't want to reevaluate it. And it seems there isn't much hope to see this in any 8.x.x version. Please look at the comment in the Feature Comparison Matrix for CCRC, CTE, ... .

    This is terrible, because this is not a big effort to send a "cleartool lsco -all" to the cm server and to get the result on the client IMO. Then I cannot understand this "design" limitation.

    I hope you can help !

    Cheers
    Olivier
    Hi Olivier and Brian,

    I needed some details on CCRC usage.

    We have a good netwrok bandwidth. However, we wanted to know honm many concurrent users can the CCRC client support over the network? Also, if the servers are in UK and the developers are accessing it from US , India or Australia then how many concurrent users can access the Rational ClearCase via CCRC client and how many can concurrently access it ?

    Any inputs will be very helpful.
  • pdubovitsky
    pdubovitsky
    189 Posts

    Re: On CCRC

    ‏2012-12-11T23:36:06Z  
    • dhawal833
    • ‏2012-12-11T17:08:14Z
    Hi Olivier and Brian,

    I needed some details on CCRC usage.

    We have a good netwrok bandwidth. However, we wanted to know honm many concurrent users can the CCRC client support over the network? Also, if the servers are in UK and the developers are accessing it from US , India or Australia then how many concurrent users can access the Rational ClearCase via CCRC client and how many can concurrently access it ?

    Any inputs will be very helpful.
    // how many concurrent users can access the Rational ClearCase via CCRC client

    How many ClearCase licenses do you have? It will be the only limitation.

    Pavel
  • dhawal833
    dhawal833
    37 Posts

    Re: On CCRC

    ‏2012-12-12T09:51:29Z  
    // how many concurrent users can access the Rational ClearCase via CCRC client

    How many ClearCase licenses do you have? It will be the only limitation.

    Pavel
    We have sufficient license to support the userbase. However, we are apprehensive about the Network. If say 50-70 concurrent users starts accessing the CC servers in UK through CCRC clients in India in the same WAN then what will be the impact on the Network. How much on bandwidth will get consumed. Although, I understand that it will also depend on the data being refereshed but do we have any case study available which will help us to propose a solution confidently that X number of users across the globe can access CC servers via CCRC without any network impact.
  • pdubovitsky
    pdubovitsky
    189 Posts

    Re: On CCRC

    ‏2012-12-12T10:46:56Z  
    • dhawal833
    • ‏2012-12-12T09:51:29Z
    We have sufficient license to support the userbase. However, we are apprehensive about the Network. If say 50-70 concurrent users starts accessing the CC servers in UK through CCRC clients in India in the same WAN then what will be the impact on the Network. How much on bandwidth will get consumed. Although, I understand that it will also depend on the data being refereshed but do we have any case study available which will help us to propose a solution confidently that X number of users across the globe can access CC servers via CCRC without any network impact.
    You are looking for something like a spherical caw in a vacuum.
    Consumed bandwidth depends on your usage pattern, project schedules, type of artifacts stored in ClearCase, etc.
    What is your current data transfer rate per CCRC user? It could be a starting point for your estimations.

    Pavel
  • dhawal833
    dhawal833
    37 Posts

    Re: On CCRC

    ‏2012-12-13T15:58:34Z  
    You are looking for something like a spherical caw in a vacuum.
    Consumed bandwidth depends on your usage pattern, project schedules, type of artifacts stored in ClearCase, etc.
    What is your current data transfer rate per CCRC user? It could be a starting point for your estimations.

    Pavel
    Thanks Pavel.

    Can you tell me a way to find out the "current data transfer rate per CCRC user" ?
  • pdubovitsky
    pdubovitsky
    189 Posts

    Re: On CCRC

    ‏2012-12-13T18:15:04Z  
    • dhawal833
    • ‏2012-12-13T15:58:34Z
    Thanks Pavel.

    Can you tell me a way to find out the "current data transfer rate per CCRC user" ?
    There are many ways to track it. For example, you can use apache logs, package counter, sniffer, etc.
    You need to talk to your infrastructure engineers on this.

    Pavel