Topic
  • 4 replies
  • Latest Post - ‏2012-10-23T12:19:25Z by deboer
rick.lacy
rick.lacy
15 Posts

Pinned topic Adding jQuery support - what does it mean for the future of dojo?

‏2012-10-20T18:24:08Z |
For a long while I heard that IBM made the strategic decision that dojo was its JavaScript toolkit of choice. With the latest alpha release of WDT, this appears to be changing. On the release notes, there is a lot of mention about added jQuery Mobile support and basically nothing about dojo.

https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/wasdev/entry/new_and_noteworthy_wlp_wdt_latest?lang=en

I can see why IBM would want more market share in the mobile space, especially with your acquisition of and subsequent work on Worklight. However, this move is a little frustrating for me because your dojo support still seems incomplete. In particular, the code editing experience for AMD style dojo, while ok, is still much inferior to the experience for the legacy style of dojo prior to 1.6. Also, there is still no code completion for config objects, which in the JavaScript world seems every bit as fundamental as method code completion etc. Dojo support in RAD / WDT used to be the best support I'd seen for a JS lib in an IDE, but now others are catching up. For example, Sencha has an Eclipse plugin for Ext-JS that will do code completion for config objects.

Add to this the DojoServerFaces site disappearing from the face of the Earth and the library not being worked on for a year, and this seems like a trend.

The one ray of hope I see is that the tools do seem to come with and support importing dojo 1.8, so that's good. Also, I'm still impressed by the work on Maqetta, though this isn't part of RAD / WDT so it's not the same thing.

So are new features for dojo (other than version upgrades) still being worked on? Or is IBM phasing out support for dojo and moving in other directions, and should we consider doing the same?

I realize this probably falls under the discretion of IBM's future direction and strategy and as such probably will not be answered, but it's just frustrating to me when the level of support for a lib I was using isn't quite where I want it to be yet and rather than improving it the emphasis seems to be on adding support for other libs.
  • deboer
    deboer
    19 Posts

    Re: Adding jQuery support - what does it mean for the future of dojo?

    ‏2012-10-22T15:42:37Z  
    Hi Rick,

    Before I get into details, the summary is simple: this announcement does not affect IBM's strategic commitment to Dojo in any way. The New and Noteworthy didn't list Dojo because it was our first priority and we have already added tools support over several previous releases.

    We recommend Dojo to our customers for a number of reasons, including its robust set of widgets, national language support, and support from IBM. However no matter what we recommend, the reality is that many of the applications our customers are building use jQuery or other JavaScript libraries. To enable these customers, we've added the tools support you referred to in our New and Noteworthy.

    IBM continues to invest in Dojo at many levels and recommend it's use to our customers. It's the JavaScript library that we use ourselves (internally and externally), and the only library we both ship and provide support for. This announcement does not affect our investment in Dojo tools either: we are continuing to improve both our visual and source-level Dojo tools. We are always glad to get feedback to help prioritize this work - we would appreciate it if you can use the RFE process [1] to formally request improved support for the areas you raised in your post.

    [1] https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/wasdev/entry/participate_request_a_new_feature?lang=en

    Thanks, Tim
  • rick.lacy
    rick.lacy
    15 Posts

    Re: Adding jQuery support - what does it mean for the future of dojo?

    ‏2012-10-22T16:57:25Z  
    • deboer
    • ‏2012-10-22T15:42:37Z
    Hi Rick,

    Before I get into details, the summary is simple: this announcement does not affect IBM's strategic commitment to Dojo in any way. The New and Noteworthy didn't list Dojo because it was our first priority and we have already added tools support over several previous releases.

    We recommend Dojo to our customers for a number of reasons, including its robust set of widgets, national language support, and support from IBM. However no matter what we recommend, the reality is that many of the applications our customers are building use jQuery or other JavaScript libraries. To enable these customers, we've added the tools support you referred to in our New and Noteworthy.

    IBM continues to invest in Dojo at many levels and recommend it's use to our customers. It's the JavaScript library that we use ourselves (internally and externally), and the only library we both ship and provide support for. This announcement does not affect our investment in Dojo tools either: we are continuing to improve both our visual and source-level Dojo tools. We are always glad to get feedback to help prioritize this work - we would appreciate it if you can use the RFE process [1] to formally request improved support for the areas you raised in your post.

    [1] https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/wasdev/entry/participate_request_a_new_feature?lang=en

    Thanks, Tim
    Hi Tim,

    Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. It's reassuring that IBM still has a commitment to Dojo even as support for alternatives is added.

    Sorry if I came off a bit harsh. jQuery is fantastic and I'm sure the tooling for it will be exceptional. I might have use for it in the future, too. And the dojo tooling in RAD is already very good, but it's nice to have something to get excited about in new releases, too ;)

    I did as you suggested over the weekend and made some RFE's for a couple of the features that are highest priority to me -

    http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=27702
    http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=27701

    Thanks,
    Rick
  • rick.lacy
    rick.lacy
    15 Posts

    Re: Adding jQuery support - what does it mean for the future of dojo?

    ‏2012-10-22T16:57:28Z  
    • deboer
    • ‏2012-10-22T15:42:37Z
    Hi Rick,

    Before I get into details, the summary is simple: this announcement does not affect IBM's strategic commitment to Dojo in any way. The New and Noteworthy didn't list Dojo because it was our first priority and we have already added tools support over several previous releases.

    We recommend Dojo to our customers for a number of reasons, including its robust set of widgets, national language support, and support from IBM. However no matter what we recommend, the reality is that many of the applications our customers are building use jQuery or other JavaScript libraries. To enable these customers, we've added the tools support you referred to in our New and Noteworthy.

    IBM continues to invest in Dojo at many levels and recommend it's use to our customers. It's the JavaScript library that we use ourselves (internally and externally), and the only library we both ship and provide support for. This announcement does not affect our investment in Dojo tools either: we are continuing to improve both our visual and source-level Dojo tools. We are always glad to get feedback to help prioritize this work - we would appreciate it if you can use the RFE process [1] to formally request improved support for the areas you raised in your post.

    [1] https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/wasdev/entry/participate_request_a_new_feature?lang=en

    Thanks, Tim
    Hi Tim,

    Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. It's reassuring that IBM still has a commitment to Dojo even as support for alternatives is added.

    Sorry if I came off a bit harsh. jQuery is fantastic and I'm sure the tooling for it will be exceptional. I might have use for it in the future, too. And the dojo tooling in RAD is already very good, but it's nice to have something to get excited about in new releases, too ;)

    I did as you suggested over the weekend and made some RFE's for a couple of the features that are highest priority to me -

    http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=27702
    http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=27701

    Thanks,
    Rick
  • deboer
    deboer
    19 Posts

    Re: Adding jQuery support - what does it mean for the future of dojo?

    ‏2012-10-23T12:19:25Z  
    • rick.lacy
    • ‏2012-10-22T16:57:28Z
    Hi Tim,

    Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. It's reassuring that IBM still has a commitment to Dojo even as support for alternatives is added.

    Sorry if I came off a bit harsh. jQuery is fantastic and I'm sure the tooling for it will be exceptional. I might have use for it in the future, too. And the dojo tooling in RAD is already very good, but it's nice to have something to get excited about in new releases, too ;)

    I did as you suggested over the weekend and made some RFE's for a couple of the features that are highest priority to me -

    http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=27702
    http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=viewRfe&CR_ID=27701

    Thanks,
    Rick
    Hi Rick,

    No worries about being harsh - I'm sure this is a question that many customers will have, and it's good to be able to respond and clear up any concerns early.

    Thanks for opening the Dojo RFEs! Our web tools team has started to evaluate them.

    Tim