Topic
  • 8 replies
  • Latest Post - ‏2012-12-17T08:02:40Z by SystemAdmin
SystemAdmin
SystemAdmin
3180 Posts

Pinned topic DOORS and DXL as a profession

‏2012-03-07T07:15:20Z |
Dear users,

I am planning to take up DOORS and DXL as my core profession, can anyone guide by giving following inputs any add-on will be very useful.
what is the expected life time of the DOORS/DXL?
Is there any major changes anticipated in 3 to 5 years, such as eliminating DXL usage, DOORS on new platform or any other tool replacing DOORS?

any info and suggestions on this matter would very helpful for me.

Thanks in advance
Updated on 2012-12-17T08:02:40Z at 2012-12-17T08:02:40Z by SystemAdmin
  • SystemAdmin
    SystemAdmin
    3180 Posts

    Re: DOORS and DXL as a profession

    ‏2012-03-07T07:49:54Z  
    Possibly the most disruptive future plans for DOORS to be aware of is that DOORS is undergoing a major change to migrate it over to the IBM Jazz platform. click here to learn more about IBM's "Rational DOORS Next Generation"

    On one the web pages for "Rational DOORS Next Generation" there is an interesting statement - "In the first release of Rational DOORS Next Generation, customers will not be able to run scripts written in DXL; we intend to reintroduce this support later"

    I don't like that word "later" - might not happen. I recommend that anyone seeing this that they have a good read about "Rational DOORS Next Generation", there is a fair bit of back peddling about migration and other things that were promoted differently not so long ago.

    I think it's self evident that DXL will eventually have to go, it's amazing it's lasted this long, and customisations will be done via one of the more contemporary scripting languages such as JAVA, PERL and so on.


    Paul Miller
    Melbourne, Australia
  • Mathias Mamsch
    Mathias Mamsch
    1986 Posts

    Re: DOORS and DXL as a profession

    ‏2012-03-07T11:22:09Z  
    Possibly the most disruptive future plans for DOORS to be aware of is that DOORS is undergoing a major change to migrate it over to the IBM Jazz platform. click here to learn more about IBM's "Rational DOORS Next Generation"

    On one the web pages for "Rational DOORS Next Generation" there is an interesting statement - "In the first release of Rational DOORS Next Generation, customers will not be able to run scripts written in DXL; we intend to reintroduce this support later"

    I don't like that word "later" - might not happen. I recommend that anyone seeing this that they have a good read about "Rational DOORS Next Generation", there is a fair bit of back peddling about migration and other things that were promoted differently not so long ago.

    I think it's self evident that DXL will eventually have to go, it's amazing it's lasted this long, and customisations will be done via one of the more contemporary scripting languages such as JAVA, PERL and so on.


    Paul Miller
    Melbourne, Australia
    In my opinion it is not possible to introduce DXL support to DOORS Next Generation. The data model of DOORS next gen is completly different (for good reasons) from the DOORS data model, so even if they implemented a DXL interpreter, existing DXL code would not be able to run, since where the code tries to open a module, there is no such equivalent in DOORS next gen. Therefore choosing DOORS / DXL as a profession will bring you probably around 5-10 more years of work with decreasing customer base. Just my two cents, Regards, Mathias

    Mathias Mamsch, IT-QBase GmbH, Consultant for Requirement Engineering and D00RS
  • llandale
    llandale
    2986 Posts

    Re: DOORS and DXL as a profession

    ‏2012-03-07T21:45:16Z  
    One of the DOORS reps here said they cannot do away with DXL since there is so much software written in it. COBOL is still around.

    On the other hand, not sure how that weighs up against the reasons DXL must go by the other responders.

    On the other-other hand, if we do away with Modules and Objects and Links and History, then I think the end result will be something other than "DOORS". Seems to me IBM bought DOORS because folks like it and it doesn't seem reasonable to me to just can it. If DOORS NextGen doesn't have a look and feel of DOORS v9 then its not really "DOORS"; and if it does have the look and feel then DXL should generally still be suitable.

    -Louie
  • SystemAdmin
    SystemAdmin
    3180 Posts

    Re: DOORS and DXL as a profession

    ‏2012-03-07T22:47:13Z  
    • llandale
    • ‏2012-03-07T21:45:16Z
    One of the DOORS reps here said they cannot do away with DXL since there is so much software written in it. COBOL is still around.

    On the other hand, not sure how that weighs up against the reasons DXL must go by the other responders.

    On the other-other hand, if we do away with Modules and Objects and Links and History, then I think the end result will be something other than "DOORS". Seems to me IBM bought DOORS because folks like it and it doesn't seem reasonable to me to just can it. If DOORS NextGen doesn't have a look and feel of DOORS v9 then its not really "DOORS"; and if it does have the look and feel then DXL should generally still be suitable.

    -Louie
    Louie wrote ....they cannot do away with DXL since there is so much software written in it. COBOL is still around....

    True - one would think that there would be close to a civil riot if IBM attempted to can DXL too early, too much time and tears has been invested in it. It would be like losing and old friend....sniff.

    With no clear migration path from DOORS 9.x to DOORS NG, no guarantee of DXL compatibility other than it might happen "later", I hope this is not going to be another DOORS XT for those can remember that product back in the Telelogic days.


    Paul Miller
    Melbourne, Australia
  • SystemAdmin
    SystemAdmin
    3180 Posts

    Re: DOORS and DXL as a profession

    ‏2012-03-12T09:26:37Z  
    Hi,

    Thanks guys for the detailed information, I hope IBM will look into these aspect while releasing DOORS NG. As per the replies to this message I understood there is still 5-10 years of life to DOORS v9 and DXL, by then I hope DOORS NG will have DXL support.

    Thank you.
  • BillTidy
    BillTidy
    29 Posts

    Re: DOORS and DXL as a profession

    ‏2012-12-10T15:38:50Z  
    Hi,

    Thanks guys for the detailed information, I hope IBM will look into these aspect while releasing DOORS NG. As per the replies to this message I understood there is still 5-10 years of life to DOORS v9 and DXL, by then I hope DOORS NG will have DXL support.

    Thank you.
    If you look at the youtube presentations on DOORS NG you can see they talk about moving "Business Logic" from the client to the server. "Business Logic" means DXL (in DOORS pre-NG versions).

    I doubt whether it will be DXL as we know it but they sure need something at least as powerful or there is no reason for many end-users to go to NG because the major advantage DOORS has/had was DXL capability to tailor DOORS out-of-the-box to suit your business rules (and make admin tasks easier among other things). I would think practically all companies using DOORS have written DXL or downloaded shared scripts from the web - and plenty of them are using A LOT of DXL.

    If there is no DXL or DXL-equivalent in DOORS NG then I expect many end users will just move to another cheaper tool when support for DOORS 9.x is ended. The look-and-feel of DOORS NG has already been long implemented in plenty of other tools, so that gives zero advantage (IBM is playing catch-up in that respect). IBM should not forget the need for tailoring and offer some kind of migration path from DXL if "Business Logic" is implemented in another way in DOORS NG, e.g. in Java.
  • SystemAdmin
    SystemAdmin
    3180 Posts

    Re: DOORS and DXL as a profession

    ‏2012-12-15T09:20:38Z  
    Hello

    I'm a relative new user, this is my first post, but I've been reading this Forum of about one year.

    I can agree to the others. The great future of doors has happened in the past and the main dxl developement activities is to prepare the "move out" from doors and from dxl to something else.

    An example: Some days ago I've messaged a bug to IBM. This was a bug in the doors tool Exchange. They have registered it as a "new feature" and the could not tell me when they plan to implement it. This means: They do not invest anything more than necessary in that product, not even the time to remove errors.

    The dxl community is very small and the only reason to stay in the old telelogic doors is the behaviour of customers and suppliers. They are still in doors and so "we" stay in too. But in the actual situation only someone needs to give the starting shoot and one by another moves out.

    Best regards
    Wolfgang
  • SystemAdmin
    SystemAdmin
    3180 Posts

    Re: DOORS and DXL as a profession

    ‏2012-12-17T08:02:40Z  
    • BillTidy
    • ‏2012-12-10T15:38:50Z
    If you look at the youtube presentations on DOORS NG you can see they talk about moving "Business Logic" from the client to the server. "Business Logic" means DXL (in DOORS pre-NG versions).

    I doubt whether it will be DXL as we know it but they sure need something at least as powerful or there is no reason for many end-users to go to NG because the major advantage DOORS has/had was DXL capability to tailor DOORS out-of-the-box to suit your business rules (and make admin tasks easier among other things). I would think practically all companies using DOORS have written DXL or downloaded shared scripts from the web - and plenty of them are using A LOT of DXL.

    If there is no DXL or DXL-equivalent in DOORS NG then I expect many end users will just move to another cheaper tool when support for DOORS 9.x is ended. The look-and-feel of DOORS NG has already been long implemented in plenty of other tools, so that gives zero advantage (IBM is playing catch-up in that respect). IBM should not forget the need for tailoring and offer some kind of migration path from DXL if "Business Logic" is implemented in another way in DOORS NG, e.g. in Java.
    The promise from IBM has been that there will be (a version of) DXL in DOORS Next Generation. It is not available in the first published version 4.0.1 but will be in the later versions.

    Of course when thinking about the DOORS NG clients, web client for most users and a classic DOORS lool-a-like client for admin users, the usage of DXL will change. Large portion of DXL developed for classic DOORS has been for making standard users life in DOORS easier. In the DOORS NG world they will be using the web client and thus can not run interactive DXL scripts (but maybe layout DXL survives?). So the emphasis in DXL development will be in supporting admin users using the new DOORS NG client.

    • Pekka Mäkinen - http://www.softqa.eu/