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18 replies Latest Post - ‏2012-02-06T14:03:32Z by kevmeist
kevmeist
kevmeist
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Pinned topic Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

‏2011-07-28T14:30:29Z |
I am just about to install the MQ Explorer. From what I see on the IBM website, you are still using Exclipse 331 for MQ Explorer 7015. Is that correct? Then MQ Explorer runs in its own Eclipse versus running under CICS Explorer?

Is there likely to be just an MQ plugin for CICS Explorer anytime soon?

Thanks,

Kevin
Updated on 2012-02-06T14:03:32Z at 2012-02-06T14:03:32Z by kevmeist
  • kevmeist
    kevmeist
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    Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

    ‏2011-07-28T17:10:55Z  in response to kevmeist
    Well, maybe it doesn't matter.......installing Eclipse takes admin authority and I don't have that and am unlikely to get it granted by our IT Support group. That's the nice thing CICS Explorer...doesn't need admin privileges to setup.

    So, the question now is will the MQ Explorer be available as a CICS Explorer plugin ever/anytime soon?

    Kevin
    • SystemAdmin
      SystemAdmin
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      Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

      ‏2011-07-28T18:31:07Z  in response to kevmeist
      Hey Kevin,

      I can't answer for the specifics about MQ Explorer (although I'll see if I can find someone who can or find out).

      However on your slightly more off topic point... ;-)

      If you can "install" CICS Explorer, you should be able to "install" Eclipse. CICS Explorer is based on the Eclipse RCP platform and is therefore very similar to Eclipse.

      It should be as simple as visiting eclipse.org, downloading the correct zip, unzipping, and running 'eclipse.exe' instead of 'cicsexplorer.exe'. I would hesitate to get into a big discussion about it here, but if you're finding some kind of Eclipse installer package that you're not allowed to install, you should be able to find a zip of Eclipse similar to the zips of CICS Explorer, from eclipse.org.

      Dave
      • kevmeist
        kevmeist
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        Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

        ‏2011-08-01T09:34:20Z  in response to SystemAdmin
        Hi Dave,

        The PCs here are pretty locked down (a bone of contention for the developers here). When I try to run the downloaded/unzipped MS0T_Eclipse_331 (from the IBM site), I get an immediate Windows dialog box saying that I need to have admin authority (*see attachment*). This didn't happen with CICS Explorer (V1.0.1.0).

        I really don't want to get into downloading native Eclipse and just "trying" it with the version of MQ Explorer (*especially if the file from the IBM website itself won't install without having admin privileges*).

        Even though we have AV software running on these PCs...I am still mandated to take any downloaded file to be separately scanned by our own IT Support staff.

        Regards,

        Kevin
        • JoeWinchester
          JoeWinchester
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          Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

          ‏2011-08-04T22:03:42Z  in response to kevmeist
          Hi Kevin,

          There are a couple of ways to get the MQ Explorer to run inside the CICS Explorer by wiring the two together without the need to get MS0T_Eclipse_331. I've written these up in a blog post at https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/JoeWinchester/entry/cics_explorer_1_1_making_it_all_work_together_and_keeping_it_so116?lang=en (sorry for the huge URL - I can't seem to make the add link button work :-(.

          I'm keen to see what kind of scenarios you'd like to solve once you have MQ and CICS Explorer side by side, e.g. "create/browse queues for the queue manager a CICS region is connected to ", or "start and stop queue managers that the CICS region is connected to", and so forth. Having what is now trendy to call "user stories" helps us to build stuff that lets folks gets tasks achieved with the two explorers running together.

          Best regards,

          Joe
          • kevmeist
            kevmeist
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            Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

            ‏2011-08-05T09:50:01Z  in response to JoeWinchester
            Hi Joe,

            Thanks for the link and blog for the MQ Explorer. I have started checking it out. I see that in your writeup that you reference V7017 of Explorer. We are still using CICS Explorer V1.0.1 and I did download V7015 of MS0T just a few days ago. Is V7017 still compatible with CICS Explorer V1.0.1? Every download here has to be run through our IT Support people before use, so didn't want to bother with V7017 if it not usable with V1.0.1.

            Regards,

            Kevin
            • kevmeist
              kevmeist
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              Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

              ‏2011-08-05T09:52:41Z  in response to kevmeist
              In fact, when I follow the link in your blog, I get to V7016 not V7017 as referenced in your blog.

              Kevin
              • kevmeist
                kevmeist
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                Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

                ‏2011-08-05T10:11:00Z  in response to kevmeist
                Joe,

                So, tried to follow your instructions in the blog (I already have CICS Explorer running from a network shared folder).

                So, I went to step 2, read that, read step 3 and decided that step 3 seemed a cleaner way of doing the install...so agree with you there. However, when running the "Install Anywhere" for MS0T (after unzipping it) I get the message that "Eclipse not installed" and the setup aborts. I intended to install the MQ Explorer on the network share also and just point CICS Explorer to it there.

                So, I am back to my original problem of cannot install Eclipse here without going through board approvals etc, etc.

                Therefore, I am back to wanting to install MQ Explorer on top of my existing CICS Explorer (which did NOT need Eclipse to be installed separately) and seemingly having no way of doing that.

                Regards,

                Kevin
                • kevmeist
                  kevmeist
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                  Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

                  ‏2011-08-05T10:29:29Z  in response to kevmeist
                  Yet, one more thing (at least from my POV). Between CICS Explorer and the various plugins available, the several releases of Eclipse needed for various versions of plugins...it seems to me that IBM have their own mini-version of what was known years ago as "DLL Hell" on Windows platforms. Maybe IBM needs to rethink their web page layout to keep a "set" of software together so that if a customer wants to download, say:

                  CICS Explorer
                  MQ Explorer
                  DT Plugin (not an issue for us as we use RD/z)

                  that said customer could go to one page and download all the compatible releases from that one page.

                  It would be useful (again from my POV) to know which of these packages need admin authority to install as (at least here) takes a lot of paperwork to get something "new" installed on the PC.

                  In fact, for those customers that use RD/z why can't we install plugins like MQ Explorer under RD/z?

                  Are the views shown by the CPSM view the same as CICS Explorer...don't think so as RD/z always seems to be "behind" CICS Explorer in it's functionality. So, from my customer POV (and I have raised this before) RD/z folks in NC and CICS/MQ Explorer folks in Hursley need to get together and rationalize releases of these product and plugins. From my POV, I don't need or want releases of CICS/MQ Explorer every 3 months and don't want to have to install these that often...I have my own work to do including using these products.

                  I hope that this makes sense to you. If you want to talk direct, then we can touch base email. Satish Tanna also has my phone number.

                  Regards,

                  Kevin
                  • JoeWinchester
                    JoeWinchester
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                    Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

                    ‏2011-08-15T12:20:12Z  in response to kevmeist
                    Hi Kevin,

                    Yes, you're right - the MQ Explorer install on a machine without first installing the WebSphere Eclipse 3.3.1 doesn't let you progress far enough - my bad - I was testing this on a machine that had the 3.3.1 so I got a clean machine and found the same issue you did :-(

                    That's the bad news - the good news is that after talking to the MQ Explorer install chaps and buying them some lattee I got out of them the thing that is stopping the install from working - it's a registry entry - so I tried faking this out to point to the CICS Explorer and got it working. I've updated my blog entry with the instructions, so let me know if this works for you.

                    https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mydeveloperworks/blogs/JoeWinchester/entry/cics_and_mq_explorer_making_it_all_work_together4?lang=en

                    Best regards and many thanks,

                    Joe
                    • kevmeist
                      kevmeist
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                      Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

                      ‏2011-08-15T12:49:04Z  in response to JoeWinchester
                      OK, thanks for the update. However, our PCs are locked down tight enough that we cannot modify registry entries either.

                      So, what do the CICS Explorer guys do differently that the MQ Explorer guys do not? I can "install" CICS Explorer (which is not really an "install" in the PC sense).

                      We are allowed a single directory on the C: drive that we can write to but modifying the registry isn't allowed.

                      Regards,

                      Kevin
                      • kevmeist
                        kevmeist
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                        Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

                        ‏2012-02-02T15:03:41Z  in response to kevmeist
                        OK, so I downloaded MQ Explorer V7.1 (ms0t_mqexplorer_71_windows.zip) and ran the setup.exe per the JoeWinchester blog article. However, that setup.exe still requires admin access (although not a pre-installed version of Eclipse) to the PC (CICS Explorer does not require admin access).

                        Therefore, I can't install MQ Explorer as I don't have admin privileges and the paperwork/time to get the IT Support folks to allow me to do that on "MY impersonal computer" is just...well...worse than pulling teeth.

                        K
                        • JoeWinchester
                          JoeWinchester
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                          Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

                          ‏2012-02-03T22:05:36Z  in response to kevmeist
                          Hi Kevin,

                          Good news: You shouldn't need admin rights on the computer with the CICS Explorer that you're installing the MQ Explorer from the MQExplorerSDK.zip,

                          Bad new: The only way to get the MQExplorerSDK.zip is to install the MQ Explorer using its Install Anywhere wizard which needs admin rights to the computer it's running on, as it has to access the windows registry.

                          One work around could be to install the MQExplorer on another computer you do have rights to and just copy the MQExplorerSDK.zip or e-mail it to yourself on the computer you don't have admin rights to.

                          I'll talk to the MQ guys to see if there is any way that they can just make the MQExplorerSDK.zip available on a web site - we do this for other plugins where we have an update site and also a .zip file containing the update site. I'll try to keep you updated, given the usual rules of what IBMers can and can't talk about on public forums.

                          Sorry we haven't got this completely working for you yet, but hang in there, and hopefully we're getting closer.

                          Best regards,

                          Joe
  • OFWHMG
    OFWHMG
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    Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

    ‏2012-02-03T14:02:10Z  in response to kevmeist
    Kevin, I have similar problems with installing software on my work PC as you do (no admin authority). What I did was download the latest MQ Explorer on my PC at home. Not that I could use it at home but it did put MQExplorerSDK.zip in the MQ explorer install directory. I copied that to a thumb drive and copied it to my work CICS explorer install directory. I then installed that MQExplorerSDK.zip as per Joe's blog and I now have MQ explorer inside CICS Explorer as another perspective.
  • kevmeist
    kevmeist
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    Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

    ‏2012-02-06T10:45:56Z  in response to kevmeist
    Hi Joe,

    So, the MQExplorerSDK.zip is a totally different file from the ms0t_mqexplorer_71_windows.zip that I downloaded from the IBM website. CICS EXplorer is "installed" on a network share...that way I can put it out there once and everyone uses it that wants to.

    I don't have admin rights to any PC here (well, they give me "local" admin rights when I install RD/z (after the base installation, they clone the hard drive as a base HD and then network connect that PC for me to test and setup everything)).

    The environment here is a secure one and they don't let software developers "play" at all. Everything has to be approved in advance. We have been asking for a sandbox environment for a long time. We are getting close to that, but everything here is complicated by security needs. We have recently moved from TS to RACF...many times something I can do one day...I can't the next and have to go get the RACF person to "adjust" rules. A royal PITA.

    If by "make the MQExplorerSDK.zip available on a web site", you mean install from there...we can't do that either. We have to download these things, get the IT Support guys to scan the download and even then I still can't "install" it on my PC without going through lots of paperwork. That is where CICS EXplorer is nice...I can just unzip the file and go.

    K
    • JoeWinchester
      JoeWinchester
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      Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

      ‏2012-02-06T13:31:04Z  in response to kevmeist
      Hi Kevin,

      What would be the ideal solution for us to provide ?

      Currently the CICS Explorer is able to be extended to have new features added to it using the built-in mechanism where you point it at an update site - which can either be an http:// location or a .zip file - and it then installs the plugins from that site. This is how we deliver the plugins for the CICS tools and the PD tools, like Interdependency Analyzer, or Debug tool, for example. What's occurred with MQ Explorer 7.1 is that you can do the same, which is to install the MQ Explorer from MQExplorer.zip which contains all the plugins correctly packaged.

      At the moment the only way to get the MQExplorerSDK.zip file is to install the MQ Explorer on a PC which you need admin rights for. If we made this available on a web site you don't have to install it from there - it just means you can download it as a .zip file - scan it - and then point your CICS Explorer at the .zip file. Hopefully the approval steps to do this would be the same as for the CICS Explorer original zip.

      If this approach of adding plugins via an update site isn't going to work for you, then an alternative approach might be that there is a "fully loaded" Explorer availble for download/unzip/get working which includes everything. This would create issues for licensing, and also for updating because the explorers, and tools, tend to rev at different times based on their underlying middleware/tool, so we've shyed away from doing this so far because of the problems it would introduce.

      Best regards,

      Joe
  • kevmeist
    kevmeist
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    Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

    ‏2012-02-06T10:51:31Z  in response to kevmeist
    Hi OFHWMG.

    I can't do that either due to security restrictions in place here...but that thanks for the idea!

    But, reality says that if it becomes this awkward or difficult to install here (and probably in many other places also) then, for me, it is not worth the hassle. It's NOT worth my job to try and end-run around security restrictions in place here.
  • kevmeist
    kevmeist
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    Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

    ‏2012-02-06T13:53:08Z  in response to kevmeist
    Hi Joe,

    Based on your last reply, then I obviously misunderstood you before. If I can do what you mentioned in your 2nd paragraph, then I should be OK (IOW...download it as a .zip file - scan it - and then point my CICS Explorer at the .zip file).

    Regards,

    Kevin
  • kevmeist
    kevmeist
    249 Posts
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    Re: Current versions of Eclipse needed for MQ Explorer

    ‏2012-02-06T14:03:32Z  in response to kevmeist
    although, for me, having a CICS Explorer with MQ and PA pre-bundled would work also <g>.

    Maybe an approach for the future would be to have a "check box" approach for getting the latest of whatever products that a given customer uses? So, a customer logs on to a website, checks several check boxes (in my case...CICS Explorer, MQ Explorer and PA) and is then taken to a page where a single download is done for those components.

    I suspect that this is not easy to do from your end....but the problem that exists now is that customers (as you point out) have to deal with multiple releases of different products (and plugins) that release at different times. This is probably "awkward" at best for all customers to handle.

    It's certainly cumbersome here. I'm a software developer and am spending more and more time working out how to install Eclipse based tools and plugins and not on the software development side of ehat I have to do.

    If IBM really is going to push all these Eclipse based tools (and get customer buyin) then it will have to solve this problem sooner rather than later. In this shop, software developers are the way in to using these tools. The sysprogs, in general, are much more resistant to these changes.

    BTW, as I am typing this text, the screen keeps scrolling back up to the top of the post and back down again. Were there web changes to the site? It didn't used to do this. Very hard to look at what you type if you have to keep moving the scroll bar down to see the text. IE8 being used here.

    Regards,

    Kevin