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1 localhost commented Trackback

Is there a way to have both work simultaneously? I.e., enable ctrl-click, but give me the gutter and when I click there and drag up or down to select multiple documents it would highlight the entire view entry the same way that the "system selection" method does?

 
-rhs
 
P.S. Your comment form is still broken. You'd probably get many more comments here if it were fixed.

2 localhost commented Permalink

I have no problem with the selection model in lotus notes today. But it is a big problem that the selection is used in orderable full text search. Often i have to restore many mails for my users because someone has made a full text search in his inbox with many hits and click on one mail to delete it, but delete every mail in the search because they are all selected.

 
Please remove this and my users will be very happy with selection modell in Hannover.
 

3 localhost commented Permalink

I agree with Ralf. The only problem with Notes selection is when you've done a search. The matching documents are all selected, but you don't realize it until you press delete or do some other action, thinking only the focussed document will be affected.Yes, this should be removed/changed./Pierre

4 localhost commented Permalink

I agree with Ralf and Pierre regarding the search/selection model.

 
As and admin/developer - I often run custom agents against multiple documents in a database and I use the gutter all the time to select documents. I would REALLY HATE IT if this goes away and I have to use ctrl/shift-clicks to select the documents I want to process, like in ms explorer. I can't count the number of times I have lost my selection when ie. sorting my digital photos. You have a bunch selected, then you do a small mistake, and your entire selection is lost and you have to start all over. Oh, I wish explorer could have a selection gutter as in notes...

5 localhost commented Permalink

I thought about it for a while and will provide (different) feedback here and in the other blog post.

 
The old mechanism is very powerful for users that know how to use it.I frequently select documents using the gutter while focusing other (unselected) documents, to inspect their fields (using document properties) and decide whether to add them to the selection.This way, it is very easy to check a view containing thousands of documents, selecting some of them and NOT losing your selection in the process. Losing a selection in the "standard" way happens all the time and is a pain.When done with selecting, you can "view-show selected only" to check the selection before you perform the action.
 
The old mechanism does need some improvements. I can think of two:- As Ralf and Pierre mentioned, the way search results are displayed when no full text index exists, really needs to be changed. (Probably very difficult because it is a SELECT command, followed by a "view-show selected only".)- SHIFT-select should be added. (CTRL-select is the way the gutter currently works, so that's already available.)
 
Other than that, it works perfectly so I would prefer to keep it the way it is.
 
(Feedback continues in the other blog post.)

6 localhost commented Permalink

I've never had a user fail to grasp the Notes selection model. It's like pen & paper paradigms they already know -- like scissors for "cut" even though there's no scissors involved -- people grasp it immediately.

 
Pros of the new model: Shift-click! Some might say row highlighting, but (see below) I think this'll just muddy the waters.
 
Con #1 of the new model: Clicking in the gutter is simpler than control-click. :-( Please leave the gutter AND use the new style -- best of both worlds -- otherwise you're making more work for users. Any time I hit an app without the gutter, I roll my eyes at the lack of user-friendliness of it.
 
Con #2 of the new model: With all the colorizing going on, e.g., color prefs in e-mail based on senders, highlighting the whole row WITHOUT also showing a check in the gutter will be confusing as hell. The gutter/checkmark is needed so I know for sure what's really selected...too many colors just make the whole display confusing, so the checkmarks would clear things up.
 
I'm hoping you can give us the best of both worlds -- shift-click & row highlighting, but also gutter & checkmarks.
 
Thanks!

7 localhost commented Permalink

You should:

 
1. Make the selected row background and foreground colors a view property? Kind of like the way we can change the color of unread rows today. That would allow us to create a good UI (or, a bad one, if we're so inclined) for indicating selection.
 
2. Can we make the presence/absence of the gutter and checkmarks a developer-assigned view property, as well? That way, we can decide what we like. For mail, you can always assume that whatever Outlook does, users will like, so make "system selection" the default, with the option for us to add the gutter and check marks in parallel through designer.

8 localhost commented Permalink

Need to think about this a bit more but quickly for now..

 
Keep gutter and checkmarks.
 
Extend as others have suggested with shift-click - that is probably responsible for about 98% of most users frustration. Most people like the feedback of the gutter and checkmark, it's the lack of shift-click that sends them off on a rant.
 
Extend so that CTRL_SHIFT-CLICK additionally selects documents *inside* collapsed categories, where the shift-click would only select what is visible in the view - just like currently dragging down the gutter does. I think that makes sense to require an extra keystroke to include "hidden" stuff since people could get a lot more than they bargained for.
 
Add 4 different overlay icons to the checkmarks
 
1) document that is selected2) category only is selected (no docs within selected)3) category itself is not selected but has document(s)selected within.4) category is selected and document(s) within selected.
 
There may be additional benefit in indicating in the icons that all vs some docs are selected within the category in the cases of 3 & 4.
 
Ok. so that wasn't so quick :)
 

9 localhost commented Permalink

If you do continue to keep the old selection gutter model, or offer it as a feature to revert back to, please add a Ctrl+D shortcut to "Deselect All". It drives me crazy that there is a Ctrl+A to select all, but I have to go to the edit menu with my mouse to click "Deselect All". I guess Alt+E, D does the same thing, but Crtl+D would be much more convenient.

10 localhost commented Permalink

test

11 localhost commented Permalink

System selection. I've been using/ developing/ administering Notes since release 2 and while I'm used to the UI the biggest complaint/ obstacle I have to address with users is always that it doesn't look, feel or act intuitively, i.e. like the MS products. Whether "theirs" or "ours" is better is not the issue. It's time to stop fighting the good fight and admit that for better or worse the MS features such as system selection are what users are used to using in all their other apps and there fore want in Notes.

12 localhost commented Permalink

I agree with Brian Miller

 
1. Make the selected row background and foreground colors a view property? Kind of like the way we can change the color of unread rows today. That would allow us to create a good UI (or, a bad one, if we're so inclined) for indicating selection.
 
2. Can we make the presence/absence of the gutter and checkmarks a developer-assigned view property, as well? That way, we can decide what we like. For mail, you can always assume that whatever Outlook does, users will like, so make "system selection" the default, with the option for us to add the gutter and check marks in parallel through designer.

13 localhost commented Permalink

Ditch the gutter and the check marks - it is inconsistent with the Windows standard.

 
If you want to attract new Lotus Notes users you need to follow the Windows standards. The Notes client needs to be as friendly and more importantly intuitive as the Microsoft Outlook or Microsoft Word.
 
If you want to keep the dwindling number of existing Lotus Notes users (e.g. the old guard) happy keep trying to do set new standards "Lotus/IBM" standards with gutters that you don't find in other windows products.

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