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1 localhost commented Permalink

Hi Mary,

 
What about implementing CTRL+Page Up (navigate left) and CTRL+Page Down (navigate right). This has been the convention used in Firefox and lots of Gnome (and probably KDE) programs.
 
It is a very useful feature to have so that power users can quickly navigate between tabs that are next to each other by only using the keybaord.
 
Thanks
 
Mark

2 localhost commented Permalink

Firefox and IE7 also use ctrl-tab for jumping between tabs

3 localhost commented Permalink

IIRC, ALT-Tab has been used forever for switching between open applications (even before the taskbar was invented in Win95). CTRL-Tab has been used equally long to switch between open document windows in the same application window (MDI: multiple document interface).IMO, that is perfect and does not need to be changed.

 
I absolutely hate the fact that documents got their own taskbar button because MDI seemed out of fashion. (BTW: that caused the need for "group taskbar buttons".)You won't find me opening a new window for every mail in Notes 8.Luckily, tabs are now widely used to keep documents in the same application window.
 
So, what needs to be done is that Notes8 should switch between tabs in the same way as other applications do it. If that is CTRL-Tab, it should be added to Expeditor.

4 localhost commented Permalink

I second the request for CTRL+Page Up and CTRL+Page Down to move through the tabs.

5 localhost commented Permalink

I've never heard of this IBM "standard" (but then, many standards aren't). Most apps don't even have the concept of rich text fields. Note sused to use shift-tab to get out of the rich text field, e.g., on the Memo form that works for me in Notes 7 as I recall. Does that no longer work?

 
control-tab pretty "standard" in Windows--as standard as anything is. ;-) Internet Explorer, Excel, Firefox, Netscape, Notes pre-8, and other apps support this. Word does not support it, but it's a word processor and does plenty of things oddly.... But control-tab seems like it's long been like a mini-alt-tab: alt-tab to switch apps, and control-tab to switch betwen open docs (MDI windows or tabs, which are conceptually the same).
 
Anyway, thanks for telling us how it's gonna be, even if we don't like it. ;-)

6 localhost commented Permalink

p.s. another nice thing about control-tab is that generally control-shift-tab would go in the other direction. Does control-shift-f8 go in the other direction, too? (Hmm, time to install Notes 8 and try this stuff out.)

7 localhost commented Permalink

Kendall: yes it does.Sadly the additional penalty for this new CTRL-F8 key combination (apart from really being about as difficult to reach as any 2key combination can be) is that you also have to hit enter to select the tab that you want.It's just not as user friendly as the old way.

8 localhost commented Permalink

OTOH Ctrl-Shift-T and then using Tab and enter is fairly comfortable and quick

9 localhost commented Permalink

"We decided that compared to many of the other things we had to do, we did not need to re-implement this behavior."

 
I kind of take offense to that statement. I understand Notes is not just a windows application. But you have to understand that a majority of your users are running Notes on that operating system. Deciding not to implement a standard Windows behavior because you have "other things to do" is in my opinion a really bad mistake.
 
Notes users have long complained about the UI being different than the rest of the applications they use. Mary Beth, you and the rest of IBM/Lotus worked really hard to bring the user interface up what people percieve to be a standard.
 
I just don't understand your decision on this one.
 

10 localhost commented Permalink

Tab key is bit more complicated than you say. In RT fields inside table (in form), keystroke CTRL+Tab INSERTS tab stop and Tab moves to other field (bug or feature?).

 
I can't live without "Next tab" shortcut and NO, opening tablist and choosing one (F8) is not an option. I vote for CTRL+PageUp/PageDown - I am used to it from Firefox :-)

11 localhost commented Permalink

Ctrl+Tab works in Firefox also. The keys Ctrl and Tab are near to each other.

 
Ctrl+F8 requires both hands, Ctrl+PgUP/PgDN also.
 
Far more inconvenient than using the MOUSE is to use both hands for a shortcut.
 
I want the Ctrl+Tab back. Removing this, to me, is a big regression.

12 localhost commented Trackback

Mary Beth, your comments on this seem to be in conflict with other descisions IBM have made with regard to the Notes 8 interface.

 
eg: [F5] - "We're considering dropping it because Hannover allows for several different window management models"
 
REMOVING "COMMON" "Microsoft" SHORT-CUTS WILL RESULT IN WINDOWS USERS COMPLAINING.
 
With the introduction of IE 7 (the "NEW" tabbed interface), [CTRL]+[TAB] switches TABS. What a revelation. We've only had that for 10 years in Notes. Until now that is...
 
With the introduction of Windows VISTA, you can now use the NOTES selection model (ticks) to select documents. What a revelation. We've only had that forever in Notes. Until now that is...
 
I can see it coming. Just a few months down the track, the Microsoft users will be saying:
 
"Why doesn't Lotus Notes switch between windows with [Ctrl]+[Tab] like IE", and
 
"Why doesn't Notes allow easy selection of multiple documents with ticks like I can in Windows."
 
Just wait for the posts to start rolling in...
 
BTW: I used to "Lock" [F5] mainly because it was quick, and used to "Hide" all of my open Lotus Notes windows when someone walked into my office. I didn't need to lock my computer, I just wanted to hide what I was working on.

13 localhost commented Permalink

I use Windows. I use Word. I use Excel. I use Internet Explorer. I use custom software written by the organization I work for. Every single piece of software we use has common shortcuts. It helps me work faster because I do not use the mouse, I use the keyboard. I love shortcuts. I love when they're all the same. If CTRL+TAB switches between tabs or windows within a parent application, then damnit, make it do the same in your application.

14 localhost commented Trackback

Can I respectfully say that that is about the dumbest thing I've ever heard?!

 
Did you really just say that you didn't do this because you had better things to do?
 
Did you also just say that you are basing your UI decisions on a study from the early 90s? uhm... wasn't that like 10 years ago?
 
The reason keyboard shortcuts work is because you can do them quicker than the mouse / menu equivalents. If you will consider the shortcuts that have "stood the test of time" they are, CTRL-C, CTRL-X, CTRL-V, CTRL-A, CTRL-Z, and CTRL-TAB and ALT-TAB. What do they have in common? That's right, you can get to them with one hand.
 
The CTRL-TAB functionality has always been a little buggy in the legacy Notes client. It has the mouse bug among others. Instead of going backwards and elminating it, I would like to see you extend it. Why not add the CTRL-1 to CTRL-9 (as implemented by firefox).
 
So the net effect of your decision is to give the user the ability to exit from an RT field without the use of the mouse which would be useful once in a while and taken away the ability to switch between documents in your multi-document interface which would be useful all the time and is implemented by every other application in the world.
 
This is a really bad decision.

15 localhost commented Permalink

"Thank you for making the effort to re-learn this keystroke."

 
Wait, which keystroke? The keystroke that moves from the currently selected tab to the "next" tab? (i.e. the tab which is immediately to the right in the tab bar, or wrapping around to the leftmost tab if you're at the far right of the tab bar.)
 
This is the behaviour of CTRL-TAB in Notes 7/earlier, and many other applications (as noted by other commenters). And complementary to that behaviour, there is a matching keystroke to move one tab to the left.
 
But if I read your post correctly (and a few weeks of heavy Notes 8 use back me up on this), this is NOT the shortcut defined by CTRL-F8. Rather, this brings up a list of open tabs (and here's the really annoying part) which ALWAYS starts with the left-most tab selected. So if you want to move from tab 7 to tab 8, you have to press CTRL-F8, then hit the down arrow 7 times, then hit Enter.
 
Does this strike you as more efficient than the old binding of CTRL-TAB, or less efficient? A keyboard shortcut that wastes time is no shortcut at all.
 
You can't be asking us to relearn the keystroke. You've taken away the keystroke in question. In its place, you have substituted something that's almost as slow as clicking the desired tab. Clicking is bad for power users.
 
I can't think of any other tab-based application which lacks the ability to move one tab left and one tab right. Not a single one.
 
The best solution, in my opinion? Give us the ability to choose our own key binding. You may like CTRL-TAB moving you out of a rich text field. I (and many others, it seems, from above comments) do not. How easy it would be to give us the choice in the "Windows and Themes" preference...
 
The current methods of tab-switching are really frustrating.

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