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Comments (49)

1 localhost commented Permalink

I agree with most, keep some type of indicator (I don't really have a preference as to which one to use) to show nested folders. I think the time savings for users is worth the real estate.

2 localhost commented Trackback

I'll toss in my .02 with the twistie crowd. As Alan mentioned recently, this is an instance where Microsoft and Apple are catching up with Lotus! Stick with the visual marker you pioneered.

3 localhost commented Permalink

As Jan says, you only lose space with the root "Folders"...which is special and obviously expandable, and thus needs no + in front of it! Just put the pluses on subsequent folders, not the "Folders" root element, and you lose no screen real estate.

 
I also don't trust someone saying it's not possible to make them be different...the expanded/collapsed [open/closed] look the folders is different, so obviously there's no problem with using a different icon. But, that said, the plus on the left is more "standard" (whatever that means) so you should do that anyway for such a common design element on computers, IMHO. Just nix the + by the root element, "Folders"....

4 localhost commented Trackback

I would keep the "+" signs, because they respresent important information if a folder has subfolders or not.

 
However, I would also do it a bit different, and merge the plus sign into the folder icon, so that there is visually all information in one spot, and not shattered over 2 icons.
 
In addition I would also add guide lines, because expanded folders with many subfolders would make it harder to get see the overview of the tree.
 
So I played around with a paint program and came up with this: http://siipi.com/public/nd8.nsf/navplusonly
 

5 localhost commented Trackback

In addition I would make it so that bold folder names mean that there are Documents in the folder, while the "folder with the plus" means only that there are subfolders in the folder.

 
That way you would get 2 important informations at one glance, and without wasting left side pixel space and needing to shift all the other navigator items to the right.

6 localhost commented Permalink

I think they are very important, if you remove them could you have a different icon for a folder that has nested folders inside it?

7 localhost commented Trackback

For consistency with the way things seem to be moving with MacOS and Vista, I would prefer to see a twistie-style indicator. Agreed it's arguably a waste of screen space, but one of the criticisms of Notes has always been its divergence from generally accepted 'standards' (albeit ones imposed by Microsoft and changing every few years!), so why not grab a chance to 'fit in' now?

8 localhost commented Trackback

I agree: keep the + signs and save the pixels by using the smaller font from the first screenshot.

9 localhost commented Trackback

First off there is no such thing as a technical limitation, just a lazy programmer who doesn't want the trouble of having to rewrite code to do what you really want :-)

 
The + signs need to be kept, you do need the visual clue to where the nested folders are. Think of it from the point of view of the assistant who accesses their managers mail, the manager may have made nested folders and the assistant would have no visual way of knowing without clicking on each and every folder.
 
Of course you could look at twisties again, there are back in fashion with both Mac OS and Vista using them all over the place.
 
Now what would be nice is some sort of 'double twisty' to show a folder with nested folders inside it, but then your back to your lazy programmers... I mean Technical Limitations.

10 localhost commented Permalink

I guess... On the other hand, ditching the + signs yields a cleaner design. So long as there's enough "visual distinction" between the open and closed folders, it shouldn't result in confusion. Making it cleaner *and* saving screen real estate for non-redundant information seems win-win to me.

 
Thanks for the opportunity to put in my $0.02 :-)

11 localhost commented Permalink

What about superimposing the + sign over the folder icon? That way you don't lose any screen real estate, and the user still gets the indicator telling them it's a nested folder?

12 localhost commented Permalink

I would be in favour of trying to follow current standards as well by adding a twistie (like Mac OS / Microsoft). Userfriendliness / transparency over design.Thanks for asking!

13 localhost commented Trackback

It is extremely important from and expectation and consistency standpoint to keep those indicators.

 
We actually have done a study of this in the past with a custom Notes app where we used an empty expand/collapse graphic and found our new users to not realize that the potential of expand/collapse existed and that our current/historic users thought that it 'looked wierd' not having them there.

14 localhost commented Permalink

Keep the plus sign (or make it a twistie). There needs to be an indicator.If I compare the two screenshots, only the two "root" elements "views" and "folders" have the space problem. All the nested elements have their plus sign at the same indent as their parent folder/view icon.Maybe development CAN make those root elements display without a plus sign, while the nested elements keep their behaviour ?

15 localhost commented Permalink

I'm with the "keep the indicators" crowd. I also think you should look at current standards. If twistie is now the current OS standard, it's worth considering that isn't it?

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